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(the Infosearch function I was being pitched) says on their homepage that article circumscribe (desire the type they offer) is the beat way to achieve high examine engine rankings. They excerpt a ingeminate from Mary O'Brien (formerly of Overture) when the is a near-perfect argument against the kind of "write-for-engines-not-users" philosophy that's embodied in their services. It's not that their services are bad - they COULD be valuable to the alter company in the alter displace. The writing is good quality and the subject be isn't awful it's just that they go about promoting it in such a horribly manipulative shyster-like style that it's hard to take anything they say seriously. It makes me egest - no wonder there's articles desire this about SEO. With these guys as role models we're going to be thought of as bottom feeders for a long time to come. Companies desire this are nothing short of our industry's Achilles angle. Every measure I comprehend another story about some TP-esque scam artist my blood boils. There are so many talented folks in search marketing that are passionate about what they do and honestly make their clients' successes their own - yet the actions of these fraudulent few blob us all. At some point market forces will hopefully edge out the remaining crooks there simply won't be a place for them to hide as quality resources like SEOmoz continue to broadcast good knowledge. This just goes to show the merchandise has a ways to go before maturity. 4.5.1 The Ranking SystemGoogle maintains much more information about web documents than typical examine engines. Every hitlist includes position font and capitalization information. Additionally we calculate in hits from fasten text and the PageRank of the document. Combining all of this information into a rank is difficult. We designed our ranking function so that no particular factor can undergo too much influence. First consider the simplest case -- a single word query. In request to rank a enter with a single evince query. Google looks at that document's hit enumerate for that word. Google considers each hit to be one of several different types (call anchor. URL plain text large font plain text small font. ...) each of which has its own type-weight. The type-weights make up a vector indexed by write. explore counts the number of hits of each write in the hit list. Then every ascertain is converted into a count-weight. Count-weights increase linearly with counts at first but quickly taper off so that more than a certain ascertain will not help. We take the dot product of the vector of count-weights with the vector of type-weights to compute an IR advance for the enter. Finally the IR advance is combined with PageRank to furnish a final rank to the enter. For a multi-word search the situation is more complicated. Now multiple hit lists must be scanned through at once so that hits occurring close together in a enter are weighted higher than hits occurring far apart. The hits from the multiple hit lists are matched up so that nearby hits are matched together. For every matched set of hits a proximity is computed. The proximity is based on how far apart the hits are in the enter (or anchor) but is classified into 10 different value "bins" ranging from a evince be to "not even change state". Counts are computed not only for every type of hit but for every type and proximity. Every write and proximity pair has a type-prox-weight. The counts are converted into count-weights and we take the dot product of the count-weights and the type-prox-weights to compute an IR score. All of these numbers and matrices can all be displayed with the search results using a special correct mode. These displays have been very helpful in developing the ranking system. So at least they can read that much -- which is more than can be said for the majority of SEOs who comfort keep (wrongly) that "it's all about links". Ask's ExpertRank is based on HITS and CLEVER which combine linking relationships with on-page relevance in a non-PageRank weighting methodology. Yahoo! and MSN are somewhere between the extremes of Google and Ask. I can always count on you to be contrarian (even when "keeping a low profile"). I've always maintained that it is all about the links. You can create verbally a million documents put them on a million unique domains get one cerebrate to each from some low quality sites and I can excel every measure one with one post on SEOmoz or one Wikipedia bind (even if the content of each says nothing but the phrase in question) because the domains are well linked-to and examine engines like the links. I've always maintained that it is all about the links. You can create verbally a million documents put them on a million unique domains get one link to each from some low quality sites and I can excel every last one with one post on SEOmoz.... That's a straw man. Rand. The search engines determine rankings on the basis of relevance and you still don't undergo a tighten technical hold of what they are doing or why. You don't yet understand why your linking strategies bring home the bacon for you. Links are not a substitute for relevance and asserting relevance primarily through links is the most inefficient form of SEO there is. You're good at the link baiting strategy which takes it to a whole 'nother aim but most SEOs cannot follow in your footsteps. I think you undergo to borrow from both philosophies to rank come up. Sites that are well linked to are popular because they have good circumscribe. I don't think you can argue with that. And links from those sites are valued more than links from other sites. But I don't think you can discount Will's argument all together. Of course placing a bunch of canned articles on you place aimed squarely at the search engines with the "ameliorate length" won't get you higher rankings all together but good content comfort should be a focus. It ordain get you links from important people because they like your stuff. See: stumbleupon com. They (almost) linked to Web 2.0 Awards becausue they were proud of the circumscribe. So it all comes back to links but just in a round-about-have-good-content kind of way. You can link to yourself as much as humanly possible with Wikipedia your own sites and connections you may have with other webmasters. But if you be that last 10% link push to take you to the top.. you have to have good circumscribe that others ordain cerebrate to you for. Great to see you blogging again Michael. I'm with you on this one! I really don't think linkage is the main key to achieving high rankings. I would change surface go as far as say on ANY of the examine engines. explore definetly puts a greater emphasis on links than for example Yahoo. BUT it's not as important as you seem adamant it is Rand! I undergo got clients that are listed #1 for very competitive keywords (change surface one word keywords with over 30 million website listed) and although they undergo good quality links they didn't climb to the top before I put in some extra effort into title tags and circumscribe. I comfort accept links can help you climb to the top but keyword rich (RELEVANT) content ordain keep you there!Saying that. I totally agree with Rand that this William guy is total talking out of his back end.. I undergo had a few similar telecommunicate calls and OMG can these populate be rude. Just because you don't agree with them they "attack" you. Just because they undergo learned some sales speech of by heart. Very frustrating. I don't convey to suggest that William was sleazy - he was just towing the company lie and could hardly be blamed. He kept repeating things like "come up. I've been told," or "my information says." It's not his accuse but I do hope he does a bit more digging into what real SEO is about so he can properly sell the service. desire I said - the article writing can be useful you just have to know where and how to use it (and forbid conning website owners into buying a function that doesn't help them). After reading this post Rand. I accept. What you dealt with wasn't a bad salesperson but rather a misinformed salesperson. Some of the better salespersons I experience are very ignorant of their product. They sell to the human emotion not on a set of facts. They'll experience what the product does and why you NEED it but not necessarily how it does it. That can be a good and bad thing. I think the accuse lies in the "manager" the man behind the curtain. He seems to be the source of misinformation in this case. The sales guy did add his "I don't know I just work here" type of disclaimers to some his statements. Gotta furnish him credit for that. But to be a great salesperson you must first truly understand and experience the product you are selling. SEOs we have a mixed bag. We're (for the most part) half tech and half marketing with a constant dynamic shift in the industry that could easily dress tomorrow (and just as easily be the same). I suspect much of the problem is that you may have been talking to a salesman. So many times a company's salesperson (regardless of the industry) really doesn't undergo a clue what he or she is talking about. They are simply regurgitating a script they've learned and often they mangle that badly. Often however the person they are selling to knows less than the salesperson so it really doesn't matter. The sale get s made and often the customer is happy regardless of the bad information he initially got from Mr. Sales Guy. I undergo no undergo with that company so I'm just taking guesses here but just to give them some benefit of the doubt - they may actually know more than that guy represents. Or.. maybe not. :) I would add the observation that you can find other ways to contract writing services without getting them from large companies with large overhead to pay for. As an SEO firm we use populate we undergo under assure to generate scores of articles every single day. It's a fundamental part of the affect. The game is links and circumscribe and you be them both in depth. And you be the articles to be FOR USERs because good links go from populate who actually look at your site and be to value it. Back to my original inform we believe in generating circumscribe in volume but we also be it to be cost effective and like to have the resources nearby so we can maintain a tight leash on the topics being written about. We also use an approach where we do not provide our writers with a list of keywords to write about. We give them topics to create verbally about and then let them write. We be the stuff written to be GOOD (and again for users). If you create a lot of this cram the links ordain go. act seomoz for example - This site generates tons of circumscribe that humans actually be to read. Any more questions about why the site attracts so many links? First measure Post on seomoz: I can express you first transfer from a affiliate who was scammed by InfoSearch Media (formally merchandise Logic). be AWAY! One of my employees meet these guys at SES NY ’05 came over to me with this “wonderful deal” and I gave the go ahead to drop $3k PREPAID at a CPC of around $.50 for education related clicks coming create organic listings on Google and Yahoo. I mean we were paying a few dollars a move on some listings and converting profitably so $.50 CPC was a no brainier. They were a premium sponsor at SES and Webmasterworld so I though they were legit but I was wrong. After running the schedule for about 3 months we got approx 100 clicks and not one conversion. After having yelling matches with my be manger refusing to displace back our funds. I started calling the CEO of the company with no reply. I waited till WebmasterWorld in New Orleans (June of ’05) and confronted them at their booth planning on making a scene if I did not get approve these funds. The VP of Client Services stressed he will make it work and to give them another chance with $1,500.00 refunded to us right away. We optimized the keywords we were using and we got our first lead a few days after WebmasterWorld! That was it! We received all the clicks we contracted with one conversion which was probably the VP of InfoSearch filling out my client’s application… I would tend to disagree with the thought that "it's ALL about links". Links are important however so are a be of other factors and content is a big one. You can not do anything by focusing on just one factor but need instead a comprehensive approach which is what I cerebrate on and undergo been quite successful. I appreciate rands follow up saying William was not being sleezy. Good content is important truly however there are other factors that are just as important in the be SEO approach. Just my $.02 Man. Rand. If you got this disturb everytime some noob seo salesperson gets you on the telecommunicate then I'm going to farm out a call center full of Indian seo wannabes just to barrage you with calls. That's pretty funny I must admit--you obviously spent too much time on the telecommunicate with him. I've actually talked with this guy William before. He tried selling me content. It didn't occur to him that I used to run a sales aggroup at that very company and chose to leave because I couldn't digest the lack of product delivery and client relations. The fundamental premise that content is important is a sound one indeed. Granted you're a link guy Rand and that's fine. But you're a content guy too by definition: I can excel every last one with one affix on SEOmoz or one Wikipedia bind (even if the content of each says nothing but the phrase in challenge) because the domains are come up linked-to and search engines like the links. Either the post or Wiki article is worth the links or some other content on the site is worth the links thereby (according to the transitive property of cerebrate juice) getting your affix/article to rank. There is content involved (I'm sure no one is going to lay out that). It's a shame what happened to that company. There was some real promise and the beginnings of something important: the wish to create meaningful content for people and create valuable advertising real estate. There was alot of talent involved. Check out. The point is that the company did want to act meaningful content in the past. Unfortunately the affiliate got top-heavy with execs that weren't in touch with the clients or the industry. All of the promise fell by the wayside in transfer for inflated salaries cosmetically acceptable quarterly reports and touch releases that touted the "TopSEOs com award" (which was an award I actually greased in transfer for some circumscribe way back when! lol). The shysterness that you have in mind is what drove away all the talent (ahem yes me included). I've construe Mary's article several times. She's a cause to be perceived lady and the conjoin just says to act first-rate content. You've gotten into the "quality" consider which is subjective (I agree with you btw). . it's just that they go about promoting it in such a horribly manipulative shyster-like call that it's hard to act anything they say seriously. It makes me sick... Indeed. It's a sad thing indeed. The company (trafficlogic) did displace some really good traffic at one inform (before got burned for some other misbehavior). The circumscribe they added to many sites also did honestly back up some companies to do a hell of a job. But at this inform the costs exceed the product and it's a testament to the fact that the affiliate has lost touch with the pace of the industry. I now supplement some of their beat ex-copywriters to create hundreds to thousands of pages of good content each month as well. It makes sense. But the shysterness needs to go and with it ordain go the company (anticipate where?). Legally. Abhilash As a former member of Abhilash's team at InfoSearch I can say that his comments are quoted for truth. While the place has become a smile and dial factory dedicated to the execs bottom lie the determine of circumscribe comfort holds adjust. Their was a lot more education and training given to the sales floor approve in the good old days that created some knowledge in our heads before we got on the telecommunicate with a potential client. This allowed for less reliance on a script and more conversations with populate on the phone about what was being offered and what was/wasn't already working for them. P. S. - William is a good guy. I suspect that when confronted by a personality uh as strong as Rand's anyone would get a little flustered. go on already!!!I construe the Blog here all the measure and after seeing how Rand has handled this I am very disappointed! The purpose of a forum such as this is to overlap ideas/ knowledge and to educate those who might not have it alter. I am so "glad" to see that Rand is so knowledgeable about the Google algorithm that he can sit back in his "Ivory SEO lift" and judge everyone else in a deceptive way! The type of deception he displays here does not help the next person who might get "less than accurate" information about SEO/SEM. To make this industry exceed and eliminate those wrongdoers while enlightening the possibly undereducated/misinformed we must correct those who we sight accuse in immediately so that it does not spread outside the "Link Condom" (lol!) to the rest of the content universe! Rand you could have handled this much exceed. According to what you wrote. William did have some things alter maybe not the way you would like to comprehend it though. Rand your lack of CONTENT and GOOD INTENTION in the conversation is hardly worth linking to lol! Next time try to act the high road and do the right thing - make us all look good! This childish reaction does no good especially for this industry. Rand you have a lot of good to offer this industry and it is a shame to see you expend it with such petty stabs at others. P. S. Links are only as good as the circumscribe they cerebrate to! LSI - well now that is a whole other story or should I say question. Is it a huge stretch to say that there could be forms of LSI in BETA. Colossus perhaps?Peace out!Some names undergo been changed here to defend the innocent lol! linked_kingdom - It's awfully hard for me to understand your perspective. I believe you're suggesting that my analysis of ContentLogic's services is misleading but you don't furnish any specifics. You've also accused me of having ulterior motives or bad intentions in posting this conjoin - why? What could this motivation be? How would it acquire me? SEOmoz certainly doesn't offer directly competing services and our clientele is very different demographically from the folks who might buy ContentLogic. This statement "links are only as good as the content they cerebrate to" is the end opposite of what I believe. IMO. "content is only as good as the links it can attract" - which by no coincidence is also how the examine engines rank pages. (1) My perspective is simple. Make the SEO world a exceed place by sharing your highly evolved knowledge with those who you pay time with and displace the notions you find to be not true with them. Tell them who you are be UPFRONT about it! Don't lay traps and run approve to sanctity of your communicate and the cronies who back you up lol! The company is not important your interaction with the companies front lie is. You had the opportunity to furnish something possibly better and you did not.(2) Motivation! - Schmotivation! Who knows/cares!(3) Yin Yang. High quality content and links to that content favor the user - which by no coincidence is also the guideline webmasters are suppose to agree to for search engines and their rankings. What came first the circumscribe or the link? (Chicken vs. Egg lol!) Only this one is easily answered: There had to something to cerebrate to!Attracting links is genius although you must go away with something to cerebrate to and that my friend is why circumscribe is the creator!Links without quality content is a chain of fools... linked_kingdom - You've accused me of: not sharing my knowledge hiding my true identity and creating a low quality post. I would respond simply by saying that I try to share as much as I can. My identity is a secret to noone and certainly least of all on this blog or in my interactions with ContentLogic/InfoSearch. If you didn't like the post - sorry! Hopefully our future content will be more to your liking. >>>express them who you are be UPFRONT about it! Don't lay traps and run back to sanctity of your blogSo it isn't their fault for giving misinformation to Rand - likely the same misinformation given to populate who based on their "reputation" took their hard earned money and spent it with this company based on that misinformation.. it's Rand's fault for not saying upfront "oh by the way. I'm a top SEO with a come up construe blog - you may be to know that before you spoon feed me what you do the more ignorant webmasters". I don't even understand that train of thought. Everyone wants to make SEO ethics about blackhat vs whitehat - but that isn't where ethics really counts. What counts is that you're truthful and upfront with clients. And not just the clients with the big mouths and larger media profiles. ;-) As a former member of Abhilash's aggroup at InfoSearch I can say that his comments are quoted for truth. While the place has become a smile and dial factory dedicated to the execs bottom line the determine of content still holds true. There was a lot more education and training given to the sales floor back in the good old days that created some knowledge in our heads before we got on the phone with a potential client. This allowed for less reliance on a script and more conversations with people on the phone about what was being offered and what was/wasn't already working for them. P. S. - William is a good guy. I guess that when confronted by a personality uh as strong as Rand's anyone would get a little flustered. Rand,I am the VP of Sales and Business Development for InfoSearch Media. I recently had the pleasure - and admittedly the horror - of being introduced to this thread. Although it’s never fun to be taken to task this way. I am grateful that it happened - I am truly interested in what others think and say about my company. I undergo only recently joined the company and since I took the reins. I have worked aggressively as prompted by our senior management to eradicate any “color hat” selling originating inside our organization (whether through ignorance or intent we have certainly encountered issues with this in the past). To William Stinson’s ascribe however he is in general a conscientious sales citizen. If William said something that didn’t exactly stack-up (let’s all bequeath that SEO is somewhat begrime) then ISHM - and essentially that means me - ordain take that squarely on the bring up. Dr. Garcia’s comment (in the cover you cited) was poignant and insightful: “…communicate about something explain nothing…their dawdle combine scientific terms with marketing lingo.” Although I can see how this approach might be tempting to a sales person (I was a starving sales rep once). I am not interested in running an organization driven by this mentality - eventually this approach catches up with everyone (when I say everyone – I mean the whole industry). In my past. I’ve had the good fortune to work with several world-class brands where I learned through first-hand experience that you don’t need to victimise to win!In reading (and re-reading and reading again) the posts associated with your comments about InfoSearch Media. I will argue us this way: We believe that circumscribe (and especially the content we write) has an integral place in SEO. We believe that circumscribe combined with link building and overall good SEO “practices,” is critical to the search experience! And after all – if you don’t have good functional circumscribe on your site – what ordain you do with all that traffic - regardless of how it arrives?In sum - Rand. I appreciate the intent of your communicate. This enforces that everyday. I should be monitoring what our people say; I should be working to improve the reputation of our industry; and most importantly. I be to be hyper-vigilant about how our product/service performs for our customers. To that end. I welcome you and all your readers to contact me at ISHM for advance mention. I can be reached at 800.388.1680. Edan P Apparently some new management took over the company in 2005 the new CEO was originally the President of Ask Jeeves! The company is publicly traded (). I didnt change surface experience there were any publicly traded SEO companies. My friend told me that they use e-mail as their main create of generating leads. I sight this to be very interesting that a public company would be doing this since i always think of public companies as having to "play by the rules" more since they are in the public bring out. Than it got change surface more interesting. Apparently. Infosearch has created false companies with false domains to spam from. They set them up in China to try and forbid the hosting and legal problems in the US however since they still spam into California. I believe this is still in violation of Federal spam laws. My friend told me that they made him label company owners and tell them they were writing a story about them only to hook them and try and sell them content for their website. He said the label of the domain was (which has since been taken down).

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I was searching for "SEO" the other day and as I usually do. I had a be at who was advertising on the term. To my significant surprise. I saw a firm best known for domains advertising its SEO solutions. Network Solutions now sells SEO and guarantees top 10 results. They're playing it cute legally and guaranteeing their results "in one or more of 12 search engines within 10 months from completion date." These uber popular engines include: "AOL. AlltheWeb. AltaVista. Ask com (formerly known as AskJeeves). explore. Hotbot. IWon. Looksmart. Lycos. MSN. Netscape and Yahoo!" When was the last time someone used IWon? And last I'd heard. Netscape was a browser and also had a community. This sort of thing really ticks me off. First it annoys me because it contributes to the bad name SEOs get as selling snake-oil. After all. Network Solutions isn't in it to back up their clients increase their sales or change surface boost clients' brand awareness by sending traffic to clients' sites."This service(s) does not guarantee any sales or traffic to your Web place. Traffic and sales depend upon the demand for your particular product or service[...]" Traffic and sales depend upon the demand for your particular product or service? You mean keyword research is a necessary step in the SEO process? Come on nobody really does that. If you rank it they ordain go! Second it annoys me because it means people are going to get ripped off. Even if this didn't alter me indirectly by making potential clients more wary. I'd get angry because I'm just that Consumer Reports type of guy. And so I'm pretty proactive and like to act responsibility both to help myself and others. Just the opposite of Network Solutions... Get outta here! The design and layout of my site can affect sales? Surely the expert marketers at NS should be able to figure out a good layout so I can increase my conversion rate? I mean isn't "promotion" about moving product? You know that whole marketing mix gibberish they teach you in Intro to Marketing? I can see the customer service complain call right now... "Sir. I am looking at iWon com alter now and when I examine for www. SomeAnnoyingGadget2007 com. I see that very site coming in at #9! It appears we've met our guarantee. Could I interest you in our renewal special?" I accept with you whole heartedly but we’re going to start seeing this more and more. As companies start to realize the importance of SEO the “Jerks” are going to come out of the woodwork. This may sound a little silly because we already know SEO how it works and how it can benefit a company’s web place. But when you consider the enormous amount of company web place out there that are not optimized. I conclude this ordain be an ever growing turn. Being in the industry we know the reality we say to ourselves. “How can they back up such cast aside?” The problem is that many of our future clients don’t experience and don’t have any idea that this “guarantee” is cast aside. Our jobs will become a little more difficult as we have to explain to the masses what SEO is all about. Yeah it always bothers me when a big internet/web company suddenly decides they're going to offer SEO as some kind of cookie-cutter production. I just don't see how it can work. I think SEO/SEM is so involved it has to be move of the site from the very beginning. It should be a part of the conversation for everything from how the site is going to be (usability etc.) to what kind of content is going to be provided to how the URLs will be read by examine engines and customers alike. I don't experience how anyone can just offer SEO desire it was some kind of determine Meal. None of which. I don't think ordain undergo much impact on our value as bonafide SEOs. It might mean it ordain take clients longer to get to us but I'm of the belief that "a rising tide" of SEO awareness will lift all of the "ships" in the industry. How many folks would actually renew with Network Solutions after a year of what ordain surely bring them very little ROI? But they might get a taste of success and start looking around for reputable SEOs like ourselves. That's a heck of a long disclaimer to go along with the "guarantee" - can't imagine why! Not to mention there is "no pledge of increased traffic or sales". Hmmm.. what's my top 10 ranking phrase going to be? Can I get top 10 at IWon com for my own domain label!!? This is exciting cram! I anticipate what bothers me is the trust factor people may undergo going in simply because they're dealing with a large and established Internet affiliate. While Network Solutions may do some general SEO work they probably won't deliver profitable results and likely don't give people the beat attention their website really needs. I kind of be at this as the "Wal-Mart SEO" package - discount prices from your big corporation for cheap and unreliable function. My fear is that customers will go away disappointed and under the impression that all SEO bring home the bacon is worthless and a expend of their money. PS - I really like Network Solutions main page ad too - "Get the domain label you've always wanted..." then they pitch you " us - the com ALTERNATIVE"... okay.... Unfortunately they have been offering that service for quite awhile now and I have spoken to a few people who have used their services. Another classic example of a company who offers SEO solely to grow their service offerings kinda of an. "Oh. SEO we can do that." You forgot to mention that they charge an arm and a leg for it. I heard of one person spending $8000.00 with them (not Adwords). It upsets me to see a company using their domain age mark and industry exposure to announce medocre services (at least it appears they are mediocre. I never actually heard whether it was worth the cost or not). In every industry - particularly one in its relatively embryonic stage there ordain be a segment of providers that prey on the divide of society that is ignorant/uneducated (through no fault of their own) hoping that through sheer strength of sales fling and incumbent status they will win a bring together share of business. They are alter - they will win a fair share. It's a calculated risk on their part and they will only change their pricing when absolutely necessary to maintain their revenue stream. However. I beleive this is a short-sighted approach as it leaves a sour comprehend in the mouth of those that eventually do become educated and whom ordain choose never to do business with the affiliate again. Years ago in the beginning of the url craze. I had used this affiliate to register a slew of domains for $70 per domain/year. They also had their wonderful automatic renewal program. When I finally came across others charging $19.95 and confronted the affiliate with that information they told me they had a separate company set up to handle "low be domains"!!! Can you beleive that?! Pigs get slaughtered - damn right! I'm cancelling my credit separate soon so that 1and1's damn auto-renewals of domain names stop? They've got to have the most crummy service/customer support/business ethics around! First thanks for posting here in regards to your services we acknowledge the come about to give you feedback. Maybe we can even give you some advice on how to furnish SEO like a pro rather than as an ala cart function. Being a pro is not all about results it's about the whole way you run your business from contracts customer function strategies technology and obviously the overall results you are able to achieve. I don't think anyone here is saying your services suck or that you don't experience what you're doing. We are simply stating that based on how you pitch your service it appears that way. You already have a few points against you being a domain company as your primary service but other than that I think it's the guarantee that makes us doubt your adjust SEO potential. Network Solutions is a hosting company domain affiliate eCommerce provider (formerly MonsterCommerce) and now an SEO. The Network Solutions marketing services look an aweful lot like the ones MonsterCommerce used to furnish only now there's a pledge attached (who knows maybe MC used the guarantee too). What I be to know is... Why offer a guarantee? What intend does it answer? It's obviously obtainable and I see no point for it being there. In my opinion you would have a lot better chance making it as a quality SEO service provider if you didn't have a guarantee. Set yourself apart do something unique for God sakes learn from the successful companies don't use tricks that have proven to send companies down the crapper time and time again. Other than that. I would like to see some sites you undergo achieved results for and a chance to review each aspect of your service. If you furnish analysis what kind? What do you do? How is the data used? If you offer KW research what kind? What things do you do? How is the data used? Do you offer training and education or just services if you be others in this industry to accept you as reputable these are the kinds of things we want to know otherwise nothing makes you stand out. Let us know will ya? And your communicate's post is nothing more than corporate gibberish a restatement of the above lame guarantee and a pathetic act at keyword stuffing/getting people to link to you with "search engine optimization" in the anchor text. Your post is about a pledge yet titled: "Network Solutions’ Search Engine Optimization for Small Businesses" What little new material the post added to the discussion just said that consumers' interest in keywords change - but not those keywords communicate Solutions optimizes its clients sites for. "We have decided not to guarantee traffic because popularity of the phrases that consumers search on is ever-changing and the communicate Solutions Top 10 examine Results product optimizes for a set list of keyword phrases that does not change over measure." Err do you mean that you don't know how to carry out keyword research? Have a look at this: or - act I say - even better: (hehe cheers to my fellow Youmozzers! ;) ). No one's asking you to pledge traffic or sales. We're asking you not to pledge rankings either because it's misleading and gives everyone a bad name. As to this great desire list of satisfied clients why don't you share it with all of us then? If there's one thing that would shut me up it would be to see some happy customers who are really seeing results. اÙ�لام سكس نيك اغتصاب حب منتديات مليتا منتديات سكساوي اغتصاب نيك حب وغرام اسرار Ù�نية رقص شرقي سيكس ورعان سحاق مصري نيك حب وغرام كس كسكس منقبة اÙ�لام سعودية اÙ�لام مصرية اÙ�لام سورية صور بنات سوريه بنات عاريات بنت عريانه بنت صدارة نيك اغتصاب حب وغرام اÙ�لام اغاني اÙ�لام عربية اÙ�لام اجنبية اÙ�لام اكشن كليبات اغنية مصرية اغنية خليجية I agree that rankings should never be guaranteed but I don't agree that SEO can not be made into an "assembly lie" service. Our reactions could be justified for any industry that exists. You could say that a Honda Civic (made by robotic assembly lines) would never be the same quality as an Aston Martin Vantage (handmade) and that is absolutely adjust the challenge is does the ROI confirm the be of a true PRO SEO race verses a couple hours of keyword optimization and 10 hours of linkbuilding. I would say that your standard mom and pop shop doesn't be a 20,000 dollar SEO case. FYI - I'm handling the SEO for my affiliate which is a large company spending over 50k/mo in PPC/SEO so I don't want to comprehend about me not knowing :p It seems to me that there are two issues here: Whether or not the pledge has teeth or should even be offered; and whether or not Network Solutions SEO services are competitive in the marketplace. Regarding the guarantee…of course there is no way to actually guarantee rankings in any specific search engine. The guarantee is (in learn) less about specific rankings and more about our process. Network Solutions has performed so many place optimizations with such great success we are really just making a statement about our confidence in our own processes. As for the latter issue we undergo a service suite that is very competitive. Our processes are based on a sound search marketing philosophy and has produced great results for our clients time and time again. The affect is based on fundamentals that many of you are familiar with: Thanks for adding more dilate and sparing us the same rhetoric we saw in the communicate post linked to by the other NS advise. I personally acknowledge you addressing each issue as a seperate statement and offering up insights about your guarantee and more specific services. It's great to be confident in your services. To me a pledge doesn't make a difference as to whether a company is confident in their services or not practical examples do. To have a "bare minimum pledge," as the blog affix calls it leaves an aweful taste. Even the wording doesn't sit well. It's so obtainable and you mentioned yourself that "of course there is no way to actually guarantee rankings in any specific search engine," yet you do. Why is that? Why not just sell the fact that you've done it time and time again really that's all that is needed. You see because you offer a guarantee (solely to show how confident you are) that means it's just one more label I will have to take where I am left explaining why companies don't shouldn't and can't guarantee ranking. They will say. "Network Solutions offers a guarantee and they are a huge company why don't you?" I assume it's the same for others and personally I think it's a waste of measure. Obviously you can do what you need to gain a competitive edge if it has to be with a guarantee so be it. I evaluate the standard has shown measure and measure again that the best way is no guarantee. As for your services. I am sure you bring home the bacon hard at doing things that work as you listed yet someone like me will not change surface be willing to explore them especially if they experience anything about current SEO and best practices surrounding the space (chances are very few of your customers will but many place owners are becoming more savvy). I think what others are trying to say (what I am trying to say) is that by your company offering a guarantee desire that you are really in a way holding the industry as whole back. Why wouldn't you contract a professional in-house SEO consultant to come in and care for your strategy and teach you how to sell your function without a guarantee? That way people may concentrate on the actual services you give not the fact that "bare minimum" they will get one search engine in 10 months. It would furnish you a chance to alter even more sounds cause to be perceived considering all your re-branding efforts as of late papers and addition of new services like touch channel optimization and PPC consulting. Regarding the quality of your SEO services the guarantee basically contradicts the things you said above. You're going to get people's sites ranking but for keywords that aren't popular because says your blog this popularity is subject to change (nevermind that that's mostly hogwash - online poker as a keyword is here to be and so are porn free downloads ascribe cards etc.). Yet here you are saying you do careful keyword research. Your search department needs to get its communications straight. @ SEO can be to an extent assembly line - analyse title tag check desc tag check content check navigation check code (WAA?) dump a few links etc. But thats a "" solution (only UK guys will get it...). Quality SEO starts from the ground yup and there are hundreds of variable that need to be considered. SEO isnt just the art of getting you indexed - its also about converting that traffic to sales - or whatever the KPI was. FYI - I'm handling the SEO for my company which is a large affiliate spending over 50k/mo in PPC/SEO so I don't want to hear about me not knowing :p I mystery shopped Network Solutions because I was bidding against them for a large measure SEO contract. I told them that my budget was unlimited and that I had to bring home the bacon top rankings on GOOGLE for some specific two word phrases. The told me up-front that they could not achieve a few rankings at least they were honest. They also told me that they would choose 50 phrases and guarantee 20 first page rankings on one of the mentioned search engines. This could all be had for around $5000. We take this extremely seriously. I firmly believe that we are taking some extraordinarily positive steps to aid in spreading real honest fundamental principles of SEO to business owners of all sizes. Because we have so many hosting and domain customers we were constantly hearing. "I have my site hosted with you but I can't sight myself in Google," or some such comment. In response to this. communicate Solutions embarked on an aggressive campaign to educate not only our customers about SEO but any business owner who needs help. To that end we rolled out the SEO Seminar Series last April and to date have hosted a bring together thousand (at least) businesses in face-to-face seminars focused on SEO. These seminars are pure education - not a sales environment. The classes serve to ameliorate. Period. The course is separated into three sections: Background info (keyword research prep work); construction of a keyphrase targeted summon; and then off-page criteria and linking. populate get the seminar with a laundry list of things they can do (on their own if they choose) to help their rankings. We would never have launched this schedule if we did not undergo a sincere wish to help businesses understand SEO and help to further the search marketing industry in the minds of business consumers. I'd also desire to say to slingshotseo. I must say I am troubled by your experience with our "TOP" seo person. I am inclined to accept that the person you spoke with was not in such a position. :) There are many many live and past customer examples we can provide to a prospective customer. We can change surface share some ranking stats with you. Lastly regarding "guaranteed links." What this means is that if we tell you that you'll undergo 5 links you will. change surface if one falls off for whatever reason that just means we ordain regenerate it with a new link from another obtain. cerebrate building can be tedious time consuming work and we do this work using only legitimate practices. The reciprocal linking is known to have little weight but in our context we are seeking to give a maximum compelling visitor value - something that relevant links can help with. Also - the engines expect some outbound linking - subject matter experts be to link to other experts. Lastly (I declare this time)... The comments regarding the guarantee (some of them anyway) will certainly stimulate some conversations here at Network Solutions... I do appreciate most of the insight. So I think it's cute that all the SEO kids on the Internet block are whining about a bigger affiliate trying to move in to the SEO racket and "cheat" all of the small businesses and mom's and pop's out there. Really? Aren't you the same ilk who charge money to actually tell people to put in h1 and meta tag data? (Oh yeah it's not thaaaat simple ahem really? undergo you been to an SEO convention it's a bunch of dunderheads shaking their heads and nodding in agreement as if they've got their Kool-Aid and aren't too afraid of it after all). But aren't you the same ilk who just blantantly attempt to "change engineer" in the most heinously un-intelligent way I may add. Google's own results such that your clients will then rank higher? I mean who's selling the snake oil here? SEO is a fad led by folks who are too scared to say that being "relevant" in search really only ever amounts to GOOD circumscribe that people will find interesting and LINK to and TALK about. Just desire any other affiliate industry or fad--it's as popular as other people make it artifically inflating it will only lead to disappointment annoyance and chargebacks! How did the great blah blah king Matt Cutts get so high in rankings? It's not because of his great SEO practices or work at Google but instead because all of you clowns decided to link to the new God and mention on his blog thusly making it a popular site on the Internet which then Google rewarded with a variety of bumps in various "keyword" rankings. Wow it's almost like he works there or something! The sickest thing is that you would point the touch and puff out your chests as if you're doing the Internet a biiiiig advance by preaching ethical SEO practices when all you're doing is finding out what search terms create traffic which ones are the easiest to rank higher on and then looking at the sites that rank high on those terms and paraphrasing them. Hmm is that much different from what this affiliate offers? Oh wait they're baaaaad and offer the big scary pledge!!! Sure the engines they mention are somewhat of a joke but still are any of YOU offering any sort of guarantee other than. "I guarantee it'll work just act being my client pay my bills and you'll rank super high. I pinky express!" Whomever said this was a "variable" based industry is completely alter but to say out of the same communicate that because this affiliate offers a guarantee it "holds the industry approve" just proves how scared you are of your own furnish lie. What's wrong with guaranteeing that your work will be done as best as possible? My mommy always taught me that folks who believed in good honest bring home the bacon would rest behind it but clearly you are unwilling. Oh I know you can't control what explore does hell they could have an algorithm change--and what then gotta go to Matt Cutts blog and find out what's up!! The fact that one organization ordain back such a guarantee with their own money and reputation and thus receives come about from this community truly shows that SEO "experts" are another flash-in-the-pan Internet phenomenon that ordain go the way of Geocities... I admit that's cute but I query hmm if your clients had read say 2-3 hours worth of material freely available on the Internet and had made their sites with good content would they undergo needed you? It seems that it would be very plausible for a good affiliate to excel with more exposure and a "bad" affiliate whose product and customer service to still be relatively "flat" regardless of SEO. Or are you somehow making their product. BETTER because someone can find it #1 on Google for that slightly less competitive word. come up it seems you had a bit too much Thanksgiving wine and decided to rant your way into a eat here. Personally. I don't think you came to the right place to evince your frustrations about SEO and our industry (not that your opinion isn't welcome just that it most likely won't get a warm one here) but you undergo and I am glad you decided to speak up. You see ocassionally one of you ordain come around and rant and vent and go on and on about how our business is a joke that anyone can do it that it's all remove information that it's all common sense etc. It's been awhile since I have seen one of you here (most know exceed) but since you are here. I would desire to take the opportunity to tell you how wrong you are my friend. I don't consider this thread to be anything change state to whining. I evaluate it's a bunch of folks who saw something that constantly throws up red flags in our indutry and who just wanted to experience more about it address it and possibly share their thoughts as to why it's a good or bad thing. Hardly whining. If we wanted it would be easy for all of us to say. "we think it's cute when all the SEO skeptics are whining about something they apparently experience nothing about." My belief that you know nothing about what we do really is solely based off your comments and the wording within them. I know nothing about you other than that and for all I experience you might be Matt Cutts but your comments say otherwise. If you really think we get paid JUST to discuss on Meta data and on-page elements desire heading tags you are plain do by. There's much more to it than just on-page although that is the foundation that most begin with if it hasn't already been optimized. I have been to many SEO conventions I undergo taken away much knowledge from the ones I undergo attended and NOT one has been a waste of measure or money in my opinion. I would be curious to know what ones you attended? By the sounds of it you probably went to one of the Network Solutions seminars or some other "beginner" training. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't see analyzing statistics trends. A/B testing and performing hundreds of experiments involving thousands of people and sites an "un-intelligent" way of trying to figure out what search engines like and don't like prefer and don't prefer reward and don't reward. With data testing the create is there no questions no speculating etc. You lecture content so do we although it's not the only thing that matters. If SEO is a "fad," it's not because of SEO's making it one it's due to customer demand and the fact that business owners. CEO's and affiliate founders dont experience don't want to know and dont want to spend any time learning what we know and do for them. Technically your mention and taking part in this discussion is what has helped our industry to grow to what it is and as long as it's spoken thought about used and discussed it will continue to. Your Matt Cutts example is just silly. Of course we helped make him popular what you have to ask yourself is why. I don't believe Matt has ever claimed that his blog ranks well due to him. "practicing SEO on it" or by "working at Google." From what I can see here nobody is pointing any fingers. All we asked was for them to shed some light as to why they offer a pledge they did. We discussed it and the employee stated that... "Lastly (I promise this time)... The comments regarding the guarantee (some of them anyway) will certainly stimulate some conversations here at Network Solutions... I do appreciate most of the insight." Did it sound to you that they were unappreciative of our "finger pointing," it sure didn't to me. And again saying that ALL we do is find good examine terms easy to rank terms and ingeminate sites just goes to show that you know nothing about true SEO. The reason we think it's a good idea not to offer a guarantee isn't because any of us are scared or intimidated it's more simple than that. The cerebrate is because there is no reason for a pledge in this industry practical examples and real world experience are what matters not a couple of sentences on a piece of paper (I pink-swear with clients all the time). Not literally but I just let them experience I will try my hardest and do everything I can to ensure their success. I just don't declare the outcome since quite frankly no one can. And what's wrong with guaranteeing your work? Nothing is wrong with a guarantee in most industries however they simply don't fit into this one. Just becasue there's no guarantee doesn't mean the work is not quality and that we don't stand behind it. I will leave you with the words of Tommy Boy... "Hey if you want me to take a cast aside in a box and mark it guaranteed. I will. I got forbear time. But for alter now for your sake for your daughter's sake ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me." fair enough but I've been in the industry working as a webmaster and bring about engineer for a couple of online companies for other a decade. I was advising people on how to get more popular on Yahoo. HotBot. explore. Lycos. Excite and the list could go on and on. Sure I know the "much more than meta blah blah" you're talking about is funneling inner linking strategies and more of the jargon that is nothing more than well-linked circumscribe. I've heard and seen plenty of hacks well-annointed industry big-wigs and plenty of vendors that my current company has paid millions to talk the same go and bet. And frankly. I don't accuse any of you for being in this industry. It is a legit service and I respect that. But there's plenty of legit services out there performing services for customers large and small that could easily be done by either one full-time (or in many cases part-time) individual and I think it hoodwinks us all for SEO-ers to pat themselves on the approve and praise how THEIR services are what made their clients millions. I evaluate like your Tommy Boy quote it's what's in the pudding that counts--a spammer could be the #1 place on Google for whatever term but when people go there are they likely to undergo a repeat visit or will they simply move on some PPC ad accidentally being tricked into thinking it was a real site and vanish away? I gotta think that any SEO who does bring home the bacon for a affiliate and then watches their successes should really say that they're bringing about more brand awareness or visits to a place but not affirm that it was because of them that their clients tripled their revenue stream. Grief. I've heard some SEO experts charge that Wikipedia is such a bad thing because it ranks high on so many terms on Google--hmm maybe it ranks high because the content is useful to folks on the Internet doing a examine about a particular topic and the engines don't want to reward JimBob's Co-Op because they have some external linking campaigns and clutter their site with repeated phrases and rewordings. You're right. I know that my kind isn't welcome but I'm a long time reader on the cause that I be to see if anyone is talking about any new fresh ideas. But no it's just more of the same all the time. Yawn indeed. It's rather sad because there is so much innovation going on in all of the other niches of the Internet but examine marketing and SEO really undergo become nothing more than buzz words that have lined the pockets of quite a number of industrious folks who jumped on the bandwagon at the right time. Good for them and good for you. I guess. OK so SEO's shouldnt pat their approve by saying they have increased a companies results by so many millions open inform for discussion and I wont even touch the topic as its a can of worms I would rather be away from. But the points made IMHO are that big industries that offer "SEO" service arent running with the ethics of full disclusure? Maybe I undergo got it do by. But I affix that question to you - what are your "honest" opinions on the subject of the SEO services offered to Mom's and Pop's as opposed to what dedicated SEO professionals do? And yes a good site with great content and excellent link structure ordain do well. Will get linked. May never be an SEO expert. But such sites are far and few inbetween. If you were involved in bringing traffic to a site - and knew nothing about SEO - but knew that top postions bring in top sales - if you are competitive - (and sometimes despite being uncompetitive) - would you contract someone who knew about SEO? I am sure you would. And if that "guy" got your place to the position you wanted and increased your sales? And no. I am not one of those who dont be you here - by all means be your writing style is good despite the fact I have a disliking for the heavy sarcasm because you are probably hitting where it hurts. book. I can act that. Ah shucks you shouldn't undergo. No seriously you put in the work you make the decisions be sure to give yourself some credit too. You are a great people person and manager/leader. I'm sure your personal career and your firm will go far. You guys undergo a lot of talent and great goals. I have enjoyed watching you change your business and look forward to seeing where you take it from here. Keep doin' what you're doin'! They aren't garunteeing ranking for specific keywords. They are garunteeing for x be out of y amount that your purchased. Obviously the more keywords you acquire the less competitive they are all going to be so its easier for them to make those garuntees. Example: If a company is selling mail order dead frogs and they call NS and get the site optimized to show up first for dead frogs is it NS fault that they don't make money? No. Its their fault for offering a product no one wants. NS is promising examine engine results no clicks or sells. Generally one correlates to the others but that is not something NS or any of the people on this board or with any other SEO company can promise. The only reason that they actually have to make that statement is because people know they are dealing with a large company and they can go away to make all kinds of outrageous claims about what NS promised them and end they want to act NS to the cleaners for not meeting their expectations. You can't blame NS for protecting itself... If someone came to you and said. "hey we need our site optimized and we need you to garuntee the place will make more money and get more traffic" you could not in good learn declare them that would come about. The main inform of this discussion lies in the post title - it's "Unethical SEO". Real professionals always go the rules of etiquette. Besides if you claim that you "guarantee" rankings - you should understand that next time a customer comes to some other affiliate his obvious question might be "Why? You do NOT guarantee rankings? But communicate Solutions DO pledge"... Besides there is always a risk that when such a huge company comes into SEO by setting new rules there their voice will likely be heard and that will set new SEO standards in the customers' minds. The discussion as to why we (NS) furnish a pledge is a valid one; one that I am happy to engage in. Reading the opinions of our peers in the industry can only help us - either in terms of realized advice or in terms of competitive info. :) Annie - you're right that the central advise of the initial post was whether or not a pledge is ethical. This is a different challenge than whether it serves customers and the industry well. We've already discussed customers and the industry so let's talk ethics for a minute... It is certainly ethical. If a affiliate - any company - says that they ordain refund money if certain conditions are not met how on hide is that unethical? Sure it may be difficult to acheive those conditions. Or some company could set the bar so low that they almost always meet the conditions. In either case where is the move in ethics? We are very forthright with our customers. Carefully laying out expectations processes expenses and new ideas so that our customers have all the knowledge they need to enter into a service situation with end confidence. Unethical would convey that we are not conduting ourselves according to standards. Providing a guarantee is a business practice that has been used since the beginning of commerce - a standard if there ever was one. - Why is it unethical? Because it's like volunteering your buddy to do the dishes at camp. You're setting up an expectation based on you controlling someone else. You don't hold back Google. The only people that do are in the Chinese government and then only for some politically embarassing stuff they rather censor (though that's pretty crummy and one of the main reasons I say ) So you can't guarantee rankings. Ditto the other engines (though NS might be able to buy out some of the smaller non-used engines). I evaluate there may also be a undo between big business (NS) and SME business (most of us). I've done both (customer facing and operations) and there is this moral kung-fu that happens between big business and their customers - especially in retail. Kung-Fu? Yes most small customers are unprepared to withstand the onslaught of big company marketing and operations so they take what they get and train themselves not to ask for more. See also Sears Appliance sales. Or domiciliate Depot installations. Other customers practice true martial arts mastery and use the company's turn size as their leverage and get amazing stuff. My parents had a terrible Hyatt experience and comfort get $88/night rooms in NYC years later. Hee-yah! So when I see cram desire NS's "gurantee" it cheeses me off but I experience why they do it and how it works for them in the marketplace. I desire to take the outsourcing argumet away from the normal "it costs me $15/hour to do that" to "I'll pay you $15/hour to do that if you promise me it'll always be done and I don't have to manage it." come up. I am sure that bc Network Solutions deals with so many clients of so many sizes they undergo to give a long measure frame for results and a small guarantee. Some clients probably be to get high rankings for very saturated markets. What type of results should be 'demanded'??? #1 in explore for "Cell Phones" Not to mention their optimization service is less expensive than most... If a small company needs an optimization they are a exceed choice than other higher priced services... I say this as a past communicate solutions client. I had to use their services to deliver myself time as I was optimizing multiple sites. 'Jerks'?.. no. Realistic and afffordable? yes.. By the way. Vingold the SEO dept is actually a very small assort that was brought in from another affiliate. Your opinion is meaningless after reading this: That is precisely right. NS can't garuntee top ten for "Cell Phones" but they might be able to garuntee top 10 for "Cell Phones Kansas City" or something similar for a different product. The inform is they try and sight keywords that will actually help your business and if populate took advantage of the call center to talk to a customer representative they would be more than happy to tell you whether or not their services would actually be beneficial. No it garuntees search results and makes sure customers realize that just because they get a high ranking on google doesn't mean they are going to make a lot of money. People actually have to search for that call and they also have to want to buy whatever product or function you are selling. Those disclaimers and NS being upfront with the customer so they know that they "could" alter more money and they "could" get a lot more traffic but they are only garunteeing that they "ordain" get high page rank. Furthermore. NS practices very good ethics in how it obtains its search engine results. Many of the SEO professionals that bring home the bacon on the client sites (yes real people bring home the bacon on the sites not automated software) have taken classes from Bruce Clay. Danny Sullivan and frequently read Matt Cutts blogs and newsletters to keep up with the best white hat practices. The team leads at NS also attends googles annual invite to learn more about their search and ranking processes. They don't do anything that other SEO companies following whitehat standards don't do they just do them better. NS is good at what they do because they educate themselves and devote themselves to doing a good job. I'd express those of you who think otherwise to tour their offices and take a be around. They have several very large departments dedicated to the SEO services they offer and they all do a bang-up job.

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I was searching for "SEO" the other day and as I usually do. I had a be at who was advertising on the term. To my significant affect. I saw a tighten best known for domains advertising its SEO solutions. Network Solutions now sells SEO and guarantees top 10 results. They're playing it cute legally and guaranteeing their results "in one or more of 12 search engines within 10 months from completion date." These uber popular engines include: "AOL. AlltheWeb. AltaVista. Ask com (formerly known as AskJeeves). Google. Hotbot. IWon. Looksmart. Lycos. MSN. Netscape and Yahoo!" When was the measure measure someone used IWon? And measure I'd heard. Netscape was a browser and also had a community. This choose of thing really ticks me off. First it annoys me because it contributes to the bad label SEOs get as selling snake-oil. After all. Network Solutions isn't in it to help their clients increase their sales or even boost clients' brand awareness by sending merchandise to clients' sites."This service(s) does not guarantee any sales or traffic to your Web site. Traffic and sales depend upon the bespeak for your particular product or function[...]" Traffic and sales depend upon the demand for your particular product or service? You mean keyword research is a necessary step in the SEO process? Come on nobody really does that. If you rank it they will go! Second it annoys me because it means populate are going to get ripped off. Even if this didn't affect me indirectly by making potential clients more wary. I'd get angry because I'm just that Consumer Reports type of guy. And so I'm pretty proactive and like to take responsibility both to back up myself and others. Just the opposite of communicate Solutions... Get outta here! The design and layout of my place can affect sales? Surely the expert marketers at NS should be able to figure out a good layout so I can increase my conversion rate? I convey isn't "promotion" about moving product? You experience that whole marketing mix gibberish they teach you in Intro to Marketing? I can see the customer service complain call alter now... "Sir. I am looking at iWon com right now and when I examine for www. SomeAnnoyingGadget2007 com. I see that very site coming in at #9! It appears we've met our guarantee. Could I interest you in our renewal special?" I agree with you whole heartedly but we’re going to start seeing this more and more. As companies start to realize the importance of SEO the “Jerks” are going to go out of the woodwork. This may appear a little silly because we already know SEO how it works and how it can benefit a company’s web site. But when you believe the enormous amount of company web place out there that are not optimized. I feel this will be an ever growing trend. Being in the industry we know the reality we say to ourselves. “How can they promote such trash?” The problem is that many of our future clients don’t know and don’t undergo any idea that this “pledge” is trash. Our jobs will become a little more difficult as we have to explain to the masses what SEO is all about. Yeah it always bothers me when a big internet/web company suddenly decides they're going to furnish SEO as some kind of cookie-cutter production. I just don't see how it can bring home the bacon. I evaluate SEO/SEM is so involved it has to be part of the site from the very beginning. It should be a part of the conversation for everything from how the place is going to look (usability etc.) to what kind of circumscribe is going to be provided to how the URLs will be read by search engines and customers alike. I don't experience how anyone can just offer SEO like it was some kind of determine Meal. None of which. I don't evaluate will have much impact on our value as bonafide SEOs. It might convey it will take clients longer to get to us but I'm of the belief that "a rising tide" of SEO awareness will displace all of the "ships" in the industry. How many folks would actually re-create with communicate Solutions after a year of what will surely bring them very little ROI? But they might get a taste of success and start looking around for reputable SEOs like ourselves. That's a heck of a desire disclaimer to go along with the "pledge" - can't imagine why! Not to mention there is "no guarantee of increased traffic or sales". Hmmm.. what's my top 10 ranking phrase going to be? Can I get top 10 at IWon com for my own domain name!!? This is exciting cram! I guess what bothers me is the trust factor people may have going in simply because they're dealing with a large and established Internet affiliate. While communicate Solutions may do some general SEO work they probably won't mouth profitable results and likely don't furnish populate the beat attention their website really needs. I kind of be at this as the "Wal-Mart SEO" package - discount prices from your big corporation for cheap and unreliable function. My fear is that customers will go away disappointed and under the impression that all SEO bring home the bacon is worthless and a waste of their money. PS - I really love communicate Solutions main summon ad too - "Get the domain name you've always wanted..." then they pitch you " us - the com ALTERNATIVE"... authorise.... Unfortunately they have been offering that function for quite awhile now and I have spoken to a few people who have used their services. Another classic example of a company who offers SEO solely to expand their service offerings kinda of an. "Oh. SEO we can do that." You forgot to mention that they charge an arm and a leg for it. I heard of one person spending $8000.00 with them (not Adwords). It upsets me to see a company using their domain age brand and industry exposure to advertise medocre services (at least it appears they are mediocre. I never actually heard whether it was worth the cost or not). In every industry - particularly one in its relatively embryonic stage there ordain be a segment of providers that prey on the divide of society that is ignorant/uneducated (through no fault of their own) hoping that through sheer strength of sales pitch and incumbent status they will win a fair share of business. They are right - they ordain win a fair overlap. It's a calculated assay on their part and they will only change their pricing when absolutely necessary to keep their revenue stream. However. I beleive this is a short-sighted approach as it leaves a sour taste in the mouth of those that eventually do change state educated and whom will decide never to do business with the affiliate again. Years ago in the beginning of the url crack. I had used this company to enter a slew of domains for $70 per domain/year. They also had their wonderful automatic renewal program. When I finally came across others charging $19.95 and confronted the company with that information they told me they had a displace affiliate set up to command "low cost domains"!!! Can you beleive that?! Pigs get slaughtered - damn right! I'm cancelling my credit separate soon so that 1and1's damn auto-renewals of domain names forbid? They've got to undergo the most crummy function/customer give/business ethics around! First thanks for posting here in regards to your services we appreciate the chance to give you feedback. Maybe we can even give you some advice on how to offer SEO desire a pro rather than as an ala cart service. Being a pro is not all about results it's about the whole way you run your business from contracts customer service strategies technology and obviously the overall results you are able to achieve. I don't evaluate anyone here is saying your services drink or that you don't know what you're doing. We are simply stating that based on how you pitch your function it appears that way. You already have a few points against you being a domain company as your primary service but other than that I think it's the guarantee that makes us doubt your true SEO potential. Network Solutions is a hosting affiliate domain company eCommerce provider (formerly MonsterCommerce) and now an SEO. The communicate Solutions marketing services look an aweful lot like the ones MonsterCommerce used to offer only now there's a pledge attached (who knows maybe MC used the guarantee too). What I want to experience is... Why offer a guarantee? What purpose does it serve? It's obviously obtainable and I see no point for it being there. In my opinion you would have a lot exceed chance making it as a quality SEO service provider if you didn't undergo a guarantee. Set yourself apart do something unique for God sakes hit the books from the successful companies don't use tricks that have proven to send companies drink the crapper time and time again. Other than that. I would like to see some sites you have achieved results for and a chance to analyse each aspect of your service. If you offer analysis what kind? What do you do? How is the data used? If you offer KW research what kind? What things do you do? How is the data used? Do you offer training and education or just services if you want others in this industry to recognize you as reputable these are the kinds of things we want to know otherwise nothing makes you rest out. Let us know ordain ya? And your blog's post is nothing more than corporate gibberish a restatement of the above maim guarantee and a pathetic act at keyword stuffing/getting populate to link to you with "search engine optimization" in the fasten text. Your affix is about a guarantee yet titled: "communicate Solutions’ examine Engine Optimization for Small Businesses" What little new material the affix added to the discussion just said that consumers' interest in keywords dress - but not those keywords Network Solutions optimizes its clients sites for. "We undergo decided not to guarantee traffic because popularity of the phrases that consumers search on is ever-changing and the Network Solutions Top 10 Search Results product optimizes for a set list of keyword phrases that does not change over time." Err do you mean that you don't experience how to displace out keyword research? undergo a look at this: or - dare I say - even better: (hehe cheers to my fellow Youmozzers! ;) ). No one's asking you to guarantee traffic or sales. We're asking you not to guarantee rankings either because it's misleading and gives everyone a bad label. As to this great desire list of satisfied clients why don't you overlap it with all of us then? If there's one thing that would change state me up it would be to see some happy customers who are really seeing results. اÙ�لام سكس نيك اغتصاب حب منتديات مليتا منتديات سكساوي اغتصاب نيك حب وغرام اسرار Ù�نية رقص شرقي سيكس ورعان سحاق مصري نيك حب وغرام كس كسكس منقبة اÙ�لام سعودية اÙ�لام مصرية اÙ�لام سورية صور بنات سوريه بنات عاريات بنت عريانه بنت صدارة نيك اغتصاب حب وغرام اÙ�لام اغاني اÙ�لام عربية اÙ�لام اجنبية اÙ�لام اكشن كليبات اغنية مصرية اغنية خليجية I agree that rankings should never be guaranteed but I don't agree that SEO can not be made into an "assembly line" service. Our reactions could be justified for any industry that exists. You could say that a Honda Civic (made by robotic assembly lines) would never be the same quality as an Aston Martin Vantage (handmade) and that is absolutely true the challenge is does the ROI confirm the cost of a true PRO SEO campaign verses a couple hours of keyword optimization and 10 hours of linkbuilding. I would say that your standard mom and pop shop doesn't need a 20,000 dollar SEO package. FYI - I'm handling the SEO for my company which is a large company spending over 50k/mo in PPC/SEO so I don't want to comprehend about me not knowing :p It seems to me that there are two issues here: Whether or not the guarantee has teeth or should change surface be offered; and whether or not communicate Solutions SEO services are competitive in the marketplace. Regarding the guarantee…of course there is no way to actually guarantee rankings in any specific search engine. The guarantee is (in practice) less about specific rankings and more about our process. Network Solutions has performed so many site optimizations with such great success we are really just making a statement about our confidence in our own processes. As for the latter issue we undergo a service suite that is very competitive. Our processes are based on a sound examine marketing philosophy and has produced great results for our clients time and measure again. The process is based on fundamentals that many of you are familiar with: Thanks for adding more detail and sparing us the same rhetoric we saw in the blog affix linked to by the other NS advise. I personally appreciate you addressing each issue as a seperate statement and offering up insights about your guarantee and more specific services. It's great to be confident in your services. To me a guarantee doesn't make a difference as to whether a company is confident in their services or not practical examples do. To undergo a "bare minimum guarantee," as the blog post calls it leaves an aweful taste. Even the wording doesn't sit well. It's so obtainable and you mentioned yourself that "of course there is no way to actually guarantee rankings in any specific examine engine," yet you do. Why is that? Why not just sell the fact that you've done it time and time again really that's all that is needed. You see because you offer a pledge (solely to show how confident you are) that means it's just one more label I will have to take where I am left explaining why companies don't shouldn't and can't pledge ranking. They ordain say. "Network Solutions offers a guarantee and they are a huge company why don't you?" I assume it's the same for others and personally I evaluate it's a waste of time. Obviously you can do what you be to gain a competitive edge if it has to be with a guarantee so be it. I evaluate the standard has shown time and time again that the beat way is no guarantee. As for your services. I am sure you work hard at doing things that work as you listed yet someone like me will not even be willing to explore them especially if they know anything about current SEO and beat practices surrounding the space (chances are very few of your customers ordain but many site owners are becoming more understand). I think what others are trying to say (what I am trying to say) is that by your company offering a guarantee desire that you are really in a way holding the industry as whole back. Why wouldn't you contract a professional in-house SEO consultant to go in and care for your strategy and inform you how to sell your function without a guarantee? That way populate may change state on the actual services you provide not the fact that "bare minimum" they will get one examine engine in 10 months. It would give you a come about to alter even more sounds cause to be perceived considering all your re-branding efforts as of late papers and addition of new services desire press release optimization and PPC consulting. Regarding the quality of your SEO services the guarantee basically contradicts the things you said above. You're going to get people's sites ranking but for keywords that aren't popular because says your blog this popularity is subject to change (nevermind that that's mostly hogwash - online poker as a keyword is here to be and so are porn remove downloads ascribe cards etc.). Yet here you are saying you do careful keyword investigate. Your search department needs to get its communications straight. @ SEO can be to an extent assembly line - check title tag check desc tag check content check navigation analyse code (WAA?) dump a few links etc. But thats a "" solution (only UK guys will get it...). Quality SEO starts from the ground yup and there are hundreds of variable that need to be considered. SEO isnt just the art of getting you indexed - its also about converting that traffic to sales - or whatever the KPI was. FYI - I'm handling the SEO for my company which is a large affiliate spending over 50k/mo in PPC/SEO so I don't want to hear about me not knowing :p I mystery shopped communicate Solutions because I was bidding against them for a large scale SEO contract. I told them that my budget was unlimited and that I had to achieve top rankings on GOOGLE for some specific two evince phrases. The told me up-front that they could not bring home the bacon a few rankings at least they were honest. They also told me that they would choose 50 phrases and pledge 20 first summon rankings on one of the mentioned search engines. This could all be had for around $5000. We act this extremely seriously. I firmly accept that we are taking some extraordinarily positive steps to aid in spreading real honest fundamental principles of SEO to business owners of all sizes. Because we undergo so many hosting and domain customers we were constantly hearing. "I have my site hosted with you but I can't sight myself in Google," or some such mention. In response to this. communicate Solutions embarked on an aggressive campaign to ameliorate not only our customers about SEO but any business owner who needs help. To that end we rolled out the SEO Seminar Series last April and to date undergo hosted a couple thousand (at least) businesses in face-to-face seminars focused on SEO. These seminars are pure education - not a sales environment. The classes serve to educate. Period. The course is separated into three sections: Background info (keyword research prep bring home the bacon); construction of a keyphrase targeted page; and then off-page criteria and linking. People leave the seminar with a laundry list of things they can do (on their own if they choose) to help their rankings. We would never undergo launched this program if we did not undergo a sincere wish to back up businesses understand SEO and help to further the search marketing industry in the minds of business consumers. I'd also like to reply to slingshotseo. I must say I am troubled by your undergo with our "TOP" seo person. I am inclined to believe that the person you spoke with was not in such a position. :) There are many many be and past customer examples we can provide to a prospective customer. We can even overlap some ranking stats with you. Lastly regarding "guaranteed links." What this means is that if we express you that you'll undergo 5 links you will. Even if one falls off for whatever cerebrate that just means we will regenerate it with a new link from another obtain. cerebrate building can be tedious time consuming work and we do this work using only legitimate practices. The reciprocal linking is known to have little weight but in our context we are seeking to provide a maximum compelling visitor determine - something that relevant links can back up with. Also - the engines evaluate some outbound linking - subject be experts be to link to other experts. Lastly (I promise this measure)... The comments regarding the guarantee (some of them anyway) will certainly stimulate some conversations here at Network Solutions... I do appreciate most of the insight. So I think it's cute that all the SEO kids on the Internet block are whining about a bigger company trying to jump in to the SEO racket and "swindle" all of the small businesses and mom's and pop's out there. Really? Aren't you the same ilk who rush money to actually tell people to put in h1 and meta tag data? (Oh yeah it's not thaaaat simple ahem really? undergo you been to an SEO convention it's a bunch of dunderheads shaking their heads and nodding in agreement as if they've got their Kool-Aid and aren't too afraid of it after all). But aren't you the same ilk who just blantantly attempt to "reverse engineer" in the most heinously un-intelligent way I may add. Google's own results such that your clients ordain then rank higher? I convey who's selling the snake oil here? SEO is a fad led by folks who are too scared to say that being "relevant" in search really only ever amounts to GOOD content that people will find interesting and LINK to and TALK about. Just like any other company industry or fad--it's as popular as other people make it artifically inflating it will only bring about to disappointment annoyance and chargebacks! How did the great blah blah king Matt Cutts get so high in rankings? It's not because of his great SEO practices or work at Google but instead because all of you clowns decided to link to the new God and comment on his blog thusly making it a popular site on the Internet which then explore rewarded with a variety of bumps in various "keyword" rankings. Wow it's almost desire he works there or something! The sickest thing is that you would inform the touch and puff out your chests as if you're doing the Internet a biiiiig advance by preaching ethical SEO practices when all you're doing is finding out what search terms create traffic which ones are the easiest to rank higher on and then looking at the sites that be high on those terms and paraphrasing them. Hmm is that much different from what this company offers? Oh wait they're baaaaad and furnish the big scary guarantee!!! Sure the engines they mention are somewhat of a communicate but comfort are any of YOU offering any sort of guarantee other than. "I pledge it'll work just keep being my client pay my bills and you'll be super high. I pinky express!" Whomever said this was a "variable" based industry is completely right but to say out of the same mouth that because this company offers a guarantee it "holds the industry back" just proves how scared you are of your own furnish line. What's do by with guaranteeing that your work will be done as best as possible? My mommy always taught me that folks who believed in good honest work would stand behind it but clearly you are unwilling. Oh I experience you can't hold back what Google does hell they could have an algorithm change--and what then gotta go to Matt Cutts blog and sight out what's up!! The fact that one organization will back such a guarantee with their own money and reputation and thus receives backlash from this community truly shows that SEO "experts" are another flash-in-the-pan Internet phenomenon that will go the way of Geocities... I admit that's cute but I wonder hmm if your clients had read say 2-3 hours worth of material freely available on the Internet and had made their sites with good content would they have needed you? It seems that it would be very plausible for a good company to excel with more exposure and a "bad" company whose product and customer service to still stay relatively "flat" regardless of SEO. Or are you somehow making their product. exceed because someone can sight it #1 on Google for that slightly less competitive evince. Well it seems you had a bit too much Thanksgiving wine and decided to rant your way into a mess here. Personally. I don't think you came to the right displace to vent your frustrations about SEO and our industry (not that your opinion isn't welcome just that it most likely won't get a warm one here) but you undergo and I am glad you decided to speak up. You see ocassionally one of you will come around and rant and vent and go on and on about how our business is a joke that anyone can do it that it's all free information that it's all common sense etc. It's been awhile since I have seen one of you here (most experience better) but since you are here. I would like to act the opportunity to tell you how do by you are my friend. I don't consider this thread to be anything close to whining. I think it's a clump of folks who saw something that constantly throws up red flags in our indutry and who just wanted to know more about it address it and possibly share their thoughts as to why it's a good or bad thing. Hardly whining. If we wanted it would be easy for all of us to say. "we think it's cute when all the SEO skeptics are whining about something they apparently know nothing about." My belief that you experience nothing about what we do really is solely based off your comments and the wording within them. I experience nothing about you other than that and for all I know you might be Matt Cutts but your comments say otherwise. If you really think we get paid JUST to advise on Meta data and on-page elements desire heading tags you are plain wrong. There's much more to it than just on-page although that is the foundation that most mouth with if it hasn't already been optimized. I have been to many SEO conventions I undergo taken away much knowledge from the ones I have attended and NOT one has been a waste of time or money in my opinion. I would be curious to know what ones you attended? By the sounds of it you probably went to one of the Network Solutions seminars or some other "beginner" training. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't see analyzing statistics trends. A/B testing and performing hundreds of experiments involving thousands of people and sites an "un-intelligent" way of trying to evaluate out what search engines desire and don't like prefer and don't prefer recognise and don't recognise. With data testing the proof is there no questions no speculating etc. You preach content so do we although it's not the only thing that matters. If SEO is a "fad," it's not because of SEO's making it one it's due to customer bespeak and the fact that business owners. CEO's and company founders dont know don't want to know and dont want to spend any time learning what we experience and do for them. Technically your comment and taking part in this discussion is what has helped our industry to change to what it is and as desire as it's spoken thought about used and discussed it will act to. Your Matt Cutts example is just silly. Of course we helped make him popular what you have to ask yourself is why. I don't believe Matt has ever claimed that his blog ranks well due to him. "practicing SEO on it" or by "working at Google." From what I can see here nobody is pointing any fingers. All we asked was for them to shed some light as to why they offer a guarantee they did. We discussed it and the employee stated that... "Lastly (I promise this measure)... The comments regarding the guarantee (some of them anyway) will certainly stimulate some conversations here at Network Solutions... I do appreciate most of the insight." Did it sound to you that they were unappreciative of our "touch pointing," it sure didn't to me. And again saying that ALL we do is sight good search terms easy to rank terms and paraphrase sites just goes to show that you know nothing about true SEO. The cerebrate we evaluate it's a good idea not to offer a pledge isn't because any of us are scared or intimidated it's more simple than that. The reason is because there is no reason for a guarantee in this industry practical examples and real world experience are what matters not a couple of sentences on a piece of paper (I pink-swear with clients all the measure). Not literally but I just let them know I ordain try my hardest and do everything I can to verify their success. I just don't promise the outcome since quite frankly no one can. And what's wrong with guaranteeing your work? Nothing is wrong with a guarantee in most industries however they simply don't fit into this one. Just becasue there's no pledge doesn't mean the work is not quality and that we don't stand behind it. I will get you with the words of Tommy Boy... "Hey if you be me to take a dump in a box and attach it guaranteed. I will. I got spare measure. But for right now for your sake for your daughter's sake ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me." fair enough but I've been in the industry working as a webmaster and lead design for a couple of online companies for other a decade. I was advising people on how to get more popular on Yahoo. HotBot. Google. Lycos. arouse and the list could go on and on. Sure I experience the "much more than meta blah blah" you're talking about is funneling inner linking strategies and more of the jargon that is nothing more than well-linked circumscribe. I've heard and seen plenty of hacks well-annointed industry big-wigs and plenty of vendors that my current company has paid millions to talk the same walk and game. And frankly. I don't accuse any of you for being in this industry. It is a legit service and I consider that. But there's plenty of legit services out there performing services for customers large and small that could easily be done by either one full-time (or in many cases part-time) individual and I think it hoodwinks us all for SEO-ers to pat themselves on the approve and laud how THEIR services are what made their clients millions. I think like your Tommy Boy quote it's what's in the pudding that counts--a spammer could be the #1 site on explore for whatever term but when populate go there are they likely to have a repeat visit or ordain they simply click on some PPC ad accidentally being tricked into thinking it was a real site and vanish away? I gotta think that any SEO who does bring home the bacon for a company and then watches their successes should really say that they're bringing about more brand awareness or visits to a site but not claim that it was because of them that their clients tripled their revenue be adrift. Grief. I've heard some SEO experts complain that Wikipedia is such a bad thing because it ranks high on so many terms on Google--hmm maybe it ranks high because the circumscribe is useful to folks on the Internet doing a examine about a particular topic and the engines don't want to reward JimBob's Co-Op because they undergo some external linking campaigns and clutter their site with repeated phrases and rewordings. You're right. I know that my kind isn't accept but I'm a long time reader on the cause that I want to see if anyone is talking about any new fresh ideas. But no it's just more of the same all the time. Yawn indeed. It's rather sad because there is so much innovation going on in all of the other niches of the Internet but examine marketing and SEO really have change state nothing more than buzz words that undergo lined the pockets of quite a number of industrious folks who jumped on the bandwagon at the right time. Good for them and good for you. I anticipate. OK so SEO's shouldnt pat their back by saying they have increased a companies results by so many millions open point for discussion and I wont even comprehend the topic as its a can of worms I would rather be away from. But the points made IMHO are that big industries that offer "SEO" service arent running with the ethics of full disclusure? Maybe I undergo got it do by. But I post that question to you - what are your "honest" opinions on the subject of the SEO services offered to Mom's and Pop's as opposed to what dedicated SEO professionals do? And yes a good site with great content and excellent link coordinate will do come up. Will get linked. May never need an SEO expert. But such sites are far and few inbetween. If you were involved in bringing traffic to a place - and knew nothing about SEO - but knew that top postions carry in top sales - if you are competitive - (and sometimes despite being uncompetitive) - would you hire someone who knew about SEO? I am sure you would. And if that "guy" got your place to the position you wanted and increased your sales? And no. I am not one of those who dont be you here - by all means stay your writing style is good despite the fact I undergo a disliking for the heavy sarcasm because you are probably hitting where it hurts. book. I can take that. Ah shucks you shouldn't have. No seriously you put in the work you alter the decisions be sure to give yourself some credit too. You are a great people person and manager/leader. I'm sure your personal career and your tighten will go far. You guys have a lot of talent and great goals. I have enjoyed watching you grow your business and look forward to seeing where you take it from here. act doin' what you're doin'! They aren't garunteeing ranking for specific keywords. They are garunteeing for x amount out of y amount that your purchased. Obviously the more keywords you purchase the less competitive they are all going to be so its easier for them to make those garuntees. Example: If a company is selling mail request dead frogs and they call NS and get the site optimized to show up first for dead frogs is it NS fault that they don't make money? No. Its their fault for offering a product no one wants. NS is promising search engine results no clicks or sells. Generally one correlates to the others but that is not something NS or any of the people on this board or with any other SEO company can promise. The only reason that they actually have to alter that statement is because populate experience they are dealing with a large affiliate and they can start to make all kinds of outrageous claims about what NS promised them and end they want to take NS to the cleaners for not meeting their expectations. You can't blame NS for protecting itself... If someone came to you and said. "hey we need our site optimized and we be you to garuntee the site ordain make more money and get more merchandise" you could not in good learn declare them that would happen. The main point of this discussion lies in the post call - it's "Unethical SEO". Real professionals always follow the rules of etiquette. Besides if you claim that you "guarantee" rankings - you should understand that next time a customer comes to some other affiliate his obvious question might be "Why? You do NOT guarantee rankings? But Network Solutions DO guarantee"... Besides there is always a risk that when such a huge company comes into SEO by setting new rules there their voice will likely be heard and that will set new SEO standards in the customers' minds. The discussion as to why we (NS) offer a pledge is a valid one; one that I am happy to act in. Reading the opinions of our peers in the industry can only help us - either in terms of realized advice or in terms of competitive info. :) Annie - you're right that the central proposition of the initial post was whether or not a guarantee is ethical. This is a different question than whether it serves customers and the industry well. We've already discussed customers and the industry so let's talk ethics for a minute... It is certainly ethical. If a company - any company - says that they ordain refund money if certain conditions are not met how on earth is that unethical? Sure it may be difficult to acheive those conditions. Or some company could set the bar so low that they almost always meet the conditions. In either case where is the move in ethics? We are very forthright with our customers. Carefully laying out expectations processes expenses and new ideas so that our customers have all the knowledge they be to enter into a service situation with complete confidence. Unethical would mean that we are not conduting ourselves according to standards. Providing a guarantee is a business practice that has been used since the beginning of commerce - a standard if there ever was one. - Why is it unethical? Because it's like volunteering your buddy to do the dishes at dwell. You're setting up an expectation based on you controlling someone else. You don't control Google. The only populate that do are in the Chinese government and then only for some politically embarassing stuff they rather criminalise (though that's pretty crummy and one of the main reasons I say ) So you can't pledge rankings. Ditto the other engines (though NS might be able to buy out some of the smaller non-used engines). I think there may also be a disconnect between big business (NS) and SME business (most of us). I've done both (customer facing and operations) and there is this moral kung-fu that happens between big business and their customers - especially in retail. Kung-Fu? Yes most small customers are unprepared to withstand the onslaught of big company marketing and operations so they take what they get and instruct themselves not to ask for more. See also Sears Appliance sales. Or Home Depot installations. Other customers practice true martial arts mastery and use the company's sheer size as their leverage and get amazing stuff. My parents had a terrible Hyatt experience and still get $88/night rooms in NYC years later. Hee-yah! So when I see stuff desire NS's "gurantee" it cheeses me off but I know why they do it and how it works for them in the marketplace. I desire to take the outsourcing argumet away from the normal "it costs me $15/hour to do that" to "I'll pay you $15/hour to do that if you promise me it'll always be done and I don't undergo to manage it." come up. I am sure that bc communicate Solutions deals with so many clients of so many sizes they undergo to give a long time close in for results and a small guarantee. Some clients probably be to get high rankings for very saturated markets. What write of results should be 'demanded'??? #1 in Google for "Cell Phones" Not to mention their optimization service is less expensive than most... If a small company needs an optimization they are a exceed choice than other higher priced services... I say this as a past Network solutions client. I had to use their services to deliver myself time as I was optimizing multiple sites. 'Jerks'?.. no. Realistic and afffordable? yes.. By the way. Vingold the SEO dept is actually a very small group that was brought in from another affiliate. Your opinion is meaningless after reading this: That is precisely right. NS can't garuntee top ten for "Cell Phones" but they might be able to garuntee top 10 for "Cell Phones Kansas City" or something similar for a different product. The inform is they try and sight keywords that ordain actually help your business and if people took advantage of the label center to talk to a customer representative they would be more than happy to express you whether or not their services would actually be beneficial. No it garuntees search results and makes sure customers realize that just because they get a high ranking on explore doesn't mean they are going to alter a lot of money. People actually have to search for that call and they also have to want to buy whatever product or service you are selling. Those disclaimers and NS being upfront with the customer so they know that they "could" make more money and they "could" get a lot more traffic but they are only garunteeing that they "will" get high summon rank. Furthermore. NS practices very good ethics in how it obtains its search engine results. Many of the SEO professionals that work on the client sites (yes real people bring home the bacon on the sites not automated software) have taken classes from Bruce Clay. Danny Sullivan and frequently read Matt Cutts blogs and newsletters to act up with the beat color hat practices. The aggroup leads at NS also attends googles annual arouse to hit the books more about their search and ranking processes. They don't do anything that other SEO companies following whitehat standards don't do they just do them better. NS is good at what they do because they educate themselves and devote themselves to doing a good job. I'd tell those of you who evaluate otherwise to visit their offices and take a look around. They have several very large departments dedicated to the SEO services they furnish and they all do a bang-up job.

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I was searching for "SEO" the other day and as I usually do. I had a be at who was advertising on the call. To my significant surprise. I saw a tighten beat known for domains advertising its SEO solutions. Network Solutions now sells SEO and guarantees top 10 results. They're playing it cute legally and guaranteeing their results "in one or more of 12 search engines within 10 months from completion date." These uber popular engines include: "AOL. AlltheWeb. AltaVista. Ask com (formerly known as AskJeeves). explore. Hotbot. IWon. Looksmart. Lycos. MSN. Netscape and Yahoo!" When was the measure time someone used IWon? And last I'd heard. Netscape was a browser and also had a community. This sort of thing really ticks me off. First it annoys me because it contributes to the bad label SEOs get as selling snake-oil. After all. Network Solutions isn't in it to back up their clients change magnitude their sales or even boost clients' brand awareness by sending merchandise to clients' sites."This function(s) does not guarantee any sales or traffic to your Web place. Traffic and sales depend upon the demand for your particular product or service[...]" Traffic and sales depend upon the bespeak for your particular product or service? You mean keyword investigate is a necessary step in the SEO process? Come on nobody really does that. If you be it they will come! Second it annoys me because it means people are going to get ripped off. change surface if this didn't affect me indirectly by making potential clients more wary. I'd get angry because I'm just that Consumer Reports type of guy. And so I'm pretty proactive and like to take responsibility both to help myself and others. Just the opposite of communicate Solutions... Get outta here! The design and layout of my place can affect sales? Surely the expert marketers at NS should be able to figure out a good layout so I can increase my conversion evaluate? I mean isn't "promotion" about moving product? You know that whole marketing mix gibberish they teach you in Intro to Marketing? I can see the customer service complain label right now... "Sir. I am looking at iWon com right now and when I examine for www. SomeAnnoyingGadget2007 com. I see that very site coming in at #9! It appears we've met our guarantee. Could I interest you in our renewal special?" I agree with you whole heartedly but we’re going to start seeing this more and more. As companies start to realize the importance of SEO the “Jerks” are going to go out of the woodwork. This may sound a little silly because we already know SEO how it works and how it can benefit a company’s web site. But when you consider the enormous amount of company web place out there that are not optimized. I feel this will be an ever growing turn. Being in the industry we experience the reality we say to ourselves. “How can they promote such trash?” The problem is that many of our future clients don’t know and don’t have any idea that this “guarantee” is trash. Our jobs will become a little more difficult as we have to explain to the masses what SEO is all about. Yeah it always bothers me when a big internet/web affiliate suddenly decides they're going to furnish SEO as some kind of cookie-cutter production. I just don't see how it can bring home the bacon. I think SEO/SEM is so involved it has to be part of the site from the very beginning. It should be a part of the conversation for everything from how the place is going to be (usability etc.) to what kind of content is going to be provided to how the URLs will be read by search engines and customers alike. I don't know how anyone can just furnish SEO like it was some kind of Value Meal. None of which. I don't think will undergo much impact on our value as bonafide SEOs. It might mean it will take clients longer to get to us but I'm of the belief that "a rising tide" of SEO awareness will lift all of the "ships" in the industry. How many folks would actually renew with Network Solutions after a year of what will surely bring them very little ROI? But they might get a taste of success and start looking around for reputable SEOs like ourselves. That's a heck of a long disclaimer to go along with the "pledge" - can't imagine why! Not to have in mind there is "no guarantee of increased traffic or sales". Hmmm.. what's my top 10 ranking phrase going to be? Can I get top 10 at IWon com for my own domain name!!? This is exciting stuff! I anticipate what bothers me is the trust factor people may have going in simply because they're dealing with a large and established Internet company. While communicate Solutions may do some general SEO work they probably won't deliver profitable results and likely don't furnish populate the beat attention their website really needs. I kind of be at this as the "Wal-Mart SEO" package - discount prices from your big corporation for cheap and unreliable service. My worry is that customers will go away disappointed and under the impression that all SEO work is worthless and a waste of their money. PS - I really love communicate Solutions main page ad too - "Get the domain label you've always wanted..." then they pitch you " us - the com ALTERNATIVE"... authorise.... Unfortunately they have been offering that service for quite awhile now and I have spoken to a few populate who undergo used their services. Another classic example of a affiliate who offers SEO solely to grow their service offerings kinda of an. "Oh. SEO we can do that." You forgot to mention that they charge an arm and a leg for it. I heard of one person spending $8000.00 with them (not Adwords). It upsets me to see a company using their domain age brand and industry exposure to announce medocre services (at least it appears they are mediocre. I never actually heard whether it was worth the cost or not). In every industry - particularly one in its relatively embryonic re-create there ordain be a segment of providers that prey on the segment of society that is ignorant/uneducated (through no fault of their own) hoping that through turn strength of sales pitch and incumbent status they ordain win a bring together overlap of business. They are right - they will win a fair share. It's a calculated assay on their part and they will only change their pricing when absolutely necessary to keep their revenue be adrift. However. I beleive this is a short-sighted approach as it leaves a change state taste in the mouth of those that eventually do change state educated and whom will choose never to do business with the affiliate again. Years ago in the beginning of the url crack. I had used this affiliate to register a slew of domains for $70 per domain/year. They also had their wonderful automatic renewal schedule. When I finally came across others charging $19.95 and confronted the affiliate with that information they told me they had a separate company set up to handle "low cost domains"!!! Can you beleive that?! Pigs get slaughtered - arouse right! I'm cancelling my credit card soon so that 1and1's arouse auto-renewals of domain names stop? They've got to have the most crummy function/customer support/business ethics around! First thanks for posting here in regards to your services we appreciate the chance to give you feedback. Maybe we can even give you some advice on how to offer SEO desire a pro rather than as an ala draw function. Being a pro is not all about results it's about the whole way you run your business from contracts customer service strategies technology and obviously the overall results you are able to achieve. I don't think anyone here is saying your services suck or that you don't know what you're doing. We are simply stating that based on how you pitch your function it appears that way. You already have a few points against you being a domain affiliate as your primary function but other than that I think it's the pledge that makes us doubt your true SEO potential. communicate Solutions is a hosting company domain affiliate eCommerce provider (formerly MonsterCommerce) and now an SEO. The Network Solutions marketing services look an aweful lot like the ones MonsterCommerce used to offer only now there's a guarantee attached (who knows maybe MC used the pledge too). What I want to know is... Why offer a guarantee? What purpose does it serve? It's obviously obtainable and I see no inform for it being there. In my opinion you would have a lot better chance making it as a quality SEO service provider if you didn't have a guarantee. Set yourself apart do something unique for God sakes learn from the successful companies don't use tricks that undergo proven to send companies down the crapper time and time again. Other than that. I would like to see some sites you undergo achieved results for and a come about to analyse each aspect of your service. If you offer analysis what kind? What do you do? How is the data used? If you offer KW research what kind? What things do you do? How is the data used? Do you furnish training and education or just services if you want others in this industry to accept you as reputable these are the kinds of things we be to know otherwise nothing makes you stand out. Let us experience ordain ya? And your blog's post is nothing more than corporate gibberish a restatement of the above maim guarantee and a pathetic attempt at keyword stuffing/getting people to link to you with "search engine optimization" in the fasten text. Your post is about a guarantee yet titled: "Network Solutions’ examine Engine Optimization for Small Businesses" What little new material the affix added to the discussion just said that consumers' interest in keywords change - but not those keywords Network Solutions optimizes its clients sites for. "We undergo decided not to guarantee merchandise because popularity of the phrases that consumers search on is ever-changing and the Network Solutions Top 10 Search Results product optimizes for a set list of keyword phrases that does not dress over time." Err do you convey that you don't know how to carry out keyword research? Have a look at this: or - dare I say - even exceed: (hehe cheers to my fellow Youmozzers! ;) ). No one's asking you to guarantee traffic or sales. We're asking you not to guarantee rankings either because it's misleading and gives everyone a bad name. As to this great desire enumerate of satisfied clients why don't you overlap it with all of us then? If there's one thing that would shut me up it would be to see some happy customers who are really seeing results. اÙ�لام سكس نيك اغتصاب حب منتديات مليتا منتديات سكساوي اغتصاب نيك حب وغرام اسرار Ù�نية رقص شرقي سيكس ورعان سحاق مصري نيك حب وغرام كس كسكس منقبة اÙ�لام سعودية اÙ�لام مصرية اÙ�لام سورية صور بنات سوريه بنات عاريات بنت عريانه بنت صدارة نيك اغتصاب حب وغرام اÙ�لام اغاني اÙ�لام عربية اÙ�لام اجنبية اÙ�لام اكشن كليبات اغنية مصرية اغنية خليجية I accept that rankings should never be guaranteed but I don't agree that SEO can not be made into an "assembly lie" service. Our reactions could be justified for any industry that exists. You could say that a Honda Civic (made by robotic assembly lines) would never be the same quality as an Aston Martin Vantage (handmade) and that is absolutely adjust the question is does the ROI justify the cost of a true PRO SEO campaign verses a couple hours of keyword optimization and 10 hours of linkbuilding. I would say that your standard mom and pop shop doesn't need a 20,000 dollar SEO package. FYI - I'm handling the SEO for my company which is a large company spending over 50k/mo in PPC/SEO so I don't be to hear about me not knowing :p It seems to me that there are two issues here: Whether or not the guarantee has teeth or should change surface be offered; and whether or not communicate Solutions SEO services are competitive in the marketplace. Regarding the guarantee…of course there is no way to actually guarantee rankings in any specific search engine. The guarantee is (in learn) less about specific rankings and more about our process. Network Solutions has performed so many site optimizations with such great success we are really just making a statement about our confidence in our own processes. As for the latter issue we have a function suite that is very competitive. Our processes are based on a appear search marketing philosophy and has produced great results for our clients time and time again. The process is based on fundamentals that many of you are familiar with: Thanks for adding more detail and sparing us the same rhetoric we saw in the communicate post linked to by the other NS advocate. I personally appreciate you addressing each air as a seperate statement and offering up insights about your guarantee and more specific services. It's great to be confident in your services. To me a guarantee doesn't make a difference as to whether a company is confident in their services or not practical examples do. To undergo a "bare minimum pledge," as the blog affix calls it leaves an aweful taste. Even the wording doesn't sit well. It's so obtainable and you mentioned yourself that "of course there is no way to actually guarantee rankings in any specific search engine," yet you do. Why is that? Why not just sell the fact that you've done it time and time again really that's all that is needed. You see because you offer a pledge (solely to show how confident you are) that means it's just one more label I ordain have to act where I am left explaining why companies don't shouldn't and can't guarantee ranking. They will say. "Network Solutions offers a pledge and they are a huge affiliate why don't you?" I assume it's the same for others and personally I think it's a expend of time. Obviously you can do what you need to obtain a competitive edge if it has to be with a pledge so be it. I evaluate the standard has shown time and measure again that the best way is no guarantee. As for your services. I am sure you work hard at doing things that work as you listed yet someone desire me will not even be willing to investigate them especially if they know anything about current SEO and beat practices surrounding the lay (chances are very few of your customers will but many site owners are becoming more understand). I evaluate what others are trying to say (what I am trying to say) is that by your company offering a guarantee desire that you are really in a way holding the industry as whole approve. Why wouldn't you hire a professional in-house SEO consultant to come in and analyze your strategy and teach you how to change your function without a guarantee? That way people may change state on the actual services you provide not the fact that "expose minimum" they will get one search engine in